"These men are extending trust to each other as well." I love this point. It makes me think about how an entirely different society than ours might look at this stunt as an act of profound community organizing, an exercise in trust and consent all the way around. Love this, thank you!
"These men are extending trust to each other as well." I love this point. It makes me think about how an entirely different society than ours might look at this stunt as an act of profound community organizing, an exercise in trust and consent all the way around. Love this, thank you!
Love that. Most people practicing kink agree that safe kink occurs in the context of community (even when sex acts are private). Community members provide support and protection against consent violation and abuse. Others in the community are prepared to discuss relationships and sexual activity with care. (Lily deserves this!) Kink communities police their members, call people in, call people out, remove unsafe people from the community, and warn others about unsafe people. Nothing is perfect but kink communities strive for a climate of trust and mutual respect for everyone. It is a form of radical care. It would be incredible to see a similar mindset extended to this kind of тАЬstuntтАЭ. ItтАЩs great to hear a conversation where people are genuinely examining their beliefs. This was such a good episode.
Thank you for your insight. I loved this episode. I have much to say about what you've shared, but with my one minute before my kids need me I'll add that the only person who really seemed to think about the "act" as a sense of community and that she would need some TLC was the older woman outside the store. Zero judgment, zero questions. Just understood this was someone's choice, but that she would need food and rest.
Honestly when he starts talking to her I wasnтАЩt sure which way it would go and as soon as I heard her response two things went through my head 1) that the British are so polite and afraid to talk about things that it comes off endearing (my in laws are British and for that generation this isnтАЩt untrue in certain circumstances). And 2) that I want to be like her. I want to reserve judgement and just hear about a person in the moment. It was as if he said she was going to run 100 miles. And yes I guess a third question was who is this woman and whatтАЩs her story?? The 70s were wild indeed :)
My husband pointed out that she might have seen the camera crew, assumed they were making a тАЬman on the streetтАЭ video, and decided she wouldnтАЩt take the bait. Regardless of her reasoning I maintain she is a true queen.
What a great point. I totally forgot about her. Ultimate girlтАЩs girl. I wonder how old she was. I hear the 70s were a wild time. ;) (jokes about wild hippies aside) Maybe she went straight to practical thinking and task-oriented support because she has a mental framework in place already. If sheтАЩs already processed her feelings about a similar behavior тАЬmake sure sheтАЩs got some waterтАЭ would be a very reasonable response.
Another thought: In response to Hanna NeelmanтАЩs (ballerina farm) interview many liberal said тАЬlet her do what she wantsтАЭ is the feminist position. Many liberal women believe LilyтАЩs behavior cannot possibly reflect what she actually wants, claiming the feminist perspective is тАЬLily has internalized patriarchal ideals so deeply that she is willing to embrace her own exploitationтАЭ. IтАЩve even seen women interpret LilyтАЩs behavior as self harm. Contrasting your episode about Lily with your episode about Hannah: Hannah said she didnтАЩt want to give up her dance education but her husband encouraged her to get married; Lily said she left school because she was making good money doing something she enjoys. Hannah says sheтАЩs living a life she is called to live by god (who says that if she leaves the church she wonтАЩt see her children for eternity). Lily says she decided sex wasnтАЩt that big of a deal to her so she does what she wants despite existing in a culture that that believes her promiscuity is wrong and gross. Hannah experiences a benevolent patriarchy. Lily is openly ridiculed by conservatives upholding patriarchal values like purity culture. Hannah grew up in a community that has enforced her behavior as the тАЬright choiceтАЭand her immediate family holds her to that standard. LilyтАЩs family seems to support her decisions to engage in behaviors that subvert the cultural values she was exposed to as a child. Are these women able to give and withdraw consent? Both claim they are doing what they want. How much confidence do we have in their claims? To what extent does their behavior align with their public statements? What can we tell from the inconsistencies? Do both women have the support, autonomy, and independence to leave their current lifestyle? Do they have the knowledge and resources to make a lifestyle change?
Sorry for all the editing: I am super dyslexic. ;)
"These men are extending trust to each other as well." I love this point. It makes me think about how an entirely different society than ours might look at this stunt as an act of profound community organizing, an exercise in trust and consent all the way around. Love this, thank you!
Love that. Most people practicing kink agree that safe kink occurs in the context of community (even when sex acts are private). Community members provide support and protection against consent violation and abuse. Others in the community are prepared to discuss relationships and sexual activity with care. (Lily deserves this!) Kink communities police their members, call people in, call people out, remove unsafe people from the community, and warn others about unsafe people. Nothing is perfect but kink communities strive for a climate of trust and mutual respect for everyone. It is a form of radical care. It would be incredible to see a similar mindset extended to this kind of тАЬstuntтАЭ. ItтАЩs great to hear a conversation where people are genuinely examining their beliefs. This was such a good episode.
Thank you for your insight. I loved this episode. I have much to say about what you've shared, but with my one minute before my kids need me I'll add that the only person who really seemed to think about the "act" as a sense of community and that she would need some TLC was the older woman outside the store. Zero judgment, zero questions. Just understood this was someone's choice, but that she would need food and rest.
Hope to hear more of your thoughts as you are available to share. :)
Honestly when he starts talking to her I wasnтАЩt sure which way it would go and as soon as I heard her response two things went through my head 1) that the British are so polite and afraid to talk about things that it comes off endearing (my in laws are British and for that generation this isnтАЩt untrue in certain circumstances). And 2) that I want to be like her. I want to reserve judgement and just hear about a person in the moment. It was as if he said she was going to run 100 miles. And yes I guess a third question was who is this woman and whatтАЩs her story?? The 70s were wild indeed :)
My husband pointed out that she might have seen the camera crew, assumed they were making a тАЬman on the streetтАЭ video, and decided she wouldnтАЩt take the bait. Regardless of her reasoning I maintain she is a true queen.
What a great point. I totally forgot about her. Ultimate girlтАЩs girl. I wonder how old she was. I hear the 70s were a wild time. ;) (jokes about wild hippies aside) Maybe she went straight to practical thinking and task-oriented support because she has a mental framework in place already. If sheтАЩs already processed her feelings about a similar behavior тАЬmake sure sheтАЩs got some waterтАЭ would be a very reasonable response.
Another thought: In response to Hanna NeelmanтАЩs (ballerina farm) interview many liberal said тАЬlet her do what she wantsтАЭ is the feminist position. Many liberal women believe LilyтАЩs behavior cannot possibly reflect what she actually wants, claiming the feminist perspective is тАЬLily has internalized patriarchal ideals so deeply that she is willing to embrace her own exploitationтАЭ. IтАЩve even seen women interpret LilyтАЩs behavior as self harm. Contrasting your episode about Lily with your episode about Hannah: Hannah said she didnтАЩt want to give up her dance education but her husband encouraged her to get married; Lily said she left school because she was making good money doing something she enjoys. Hannah says sheтАЩs living a life she is called to live by god (who says that if she leaves the church she wonтАЩt see her children for eternity). Lily says she decided sex wasnтАЩt that big of a deal to her so she does what she wants despite existing in a culture that that believes her promiscuity is wrong and gross. Hannah experiences a benevolent patriarchy. Lily is openly ridiculed by conservatives upholding patriarchal values like purity culture. Hannah grew up in a community that has enforced her behavior as the тАЬright choiceтАЭand her immediate family holds her to that standard. LilyтАЩs family seems to support her decisions to engage in behaviors that subvert the cultural values she was exposed to as a child. Are these women able to give and withdraw consent? Both claim they are doing what they want. How much confidence do we have in their claims? To what extent does their behavior align with their public statements? What can we tell from the inconsistencies? Do both women have the support, autonomy, and independence to leave their current lifestyle? Do they have the knowledge and resources to make a lifestyle change?
Sorry for all the editing: I am super dyslexic. ;)